By Ralph Greco, Jr.
One could say it has been a ‘dogs age’ since guitarist and vocalist Richie Kotzen, bassist Billy Sheehan, and drummer Mike Portnoy, collectively known as The Winery Dogs, marked their recording territory with new music.
Following a seven-year break from the studio, this unique collective of wildly inventive players has returned with an aptly named third album, III.
I spoke with Kotzen to discuss the band’s new album, their impending tour, his personal hefty output of songwriting, and all things that make the Winey Dogs bite in their specific way.
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We love the new album and are really anticipating the tour. That starts pretty soon, right? Actually, here on the east coast where I live, I think.
Yeah, we’re gonna come in very soon to rehearse in Pennsylvania, and then we’re gonna start the tour there.
Not that we’re not thrilled, but any reason why the East Coast before the West Coast?
It’s just kind of the way it fell out. These things are different each time. Sometimes we start here on the West coast, sometimes we start on the East, and for whatever reason, you know, that’s just the way it went down. I don’t keep track of those kinds of things so much because I leave that to the booking agents; trust them to do their job.
Seeing all that you, Mike Portnoy and Billy Sheehan do with other bands, is it safe to assume it’s a bit of a process to get the Winery Dogs up and running each time?
You know, it’s funny because the consensus is that we’ve been inactive for a long time, but the reality is we toured back in 2019. And we would have continued and done more, we were hoping to, but obviously, the pandemic kind of slowed us down. But coming together again wasn’t as hard as you might think. I mean, when we got together here (Kotzen’s home and studio where III was made) to do the writing, things kind of clicked very quickly, and we found the inspiration without too much effort. And I would imagine that once we get rolling on the tour, it’s all gonna kind of snap back. I suppose the biggest task is to get our heads around the new material because we’ve never played that live. I’d like to think the old material comes back to us just like hopping back on a bicycle.
So, in between the times when you’re not together, does somebody make a phone call and go, ‘OK, let’s get back together,’ or did you just find yourself back together?
Back to that tour in 2019, I think the consensus was when that tour ended, we wanted to make another album, get back in for a third album. And then we had some other things in front of us, other commitments we had to fulfill, then the pandemic as I said, so it wasn’t until summer of 2021 that we were able to get in a room together. And we did so twice; the first was like nine or ten days here, where we did some recording and writing at my house, and then we got together again about a month later.
Take me through the specific writing process with the Winery Dogs.
The way the process works is I sit with our creation and write lyrics and melodies, and do my best to bring these ideas to complete songs, so that’s what got us here. Then we see what we do or don’t want.
I don’t know what solo album it was of yours that I was listening to recently and then considering the Winery Dogs’ output, plus what you put together with Adrian Smith, but you have a prodigious output of songs. Do you ever worry the well will run dry?
I just did some interesting math because Adrian and I have been getting together and doing some writing for what will be a second Smith/Kotzen album and promoting this Winery Dog record; I just did some quick math and realized that since 1990 to 2019 I’ve recorded 82 compositions which involve me, you know, writing, yeah, or maybe some of them were almost finished. But it’s like a situation where its input and output set at this point. Today, the idea of writing is now kind of going away and I’m shifting gears and focusing with going on tour. And so, while I’m out there and I’m not going to be worrying about anything other than just doing the gigs. But with writing, things start coming to you. And that’s how it works for me.
So, no writer’s block, then?
No, I’m not a guy that really believes in writer’s block because I believe that when you don’t have anything to write you just don’t write. It’s not meant to be there, right? And typically, in my experience, the best stuff that I’ve ever done is stuff that just comes to me when I least expect. Could be early in the morning, coming out of a dream, could be in a restaurant; if I hear a melody, I have to run outside and sing it into my iPhone. Somebody says something, and I’m like, whoa, that’s an interesting point of view, and I might get a song out of it. These things are so, I don’t wanna say random, but unpredictable, but it is like that input and output. In order to have the output, which would be the songs, you have to have the input, which means go out and do some living.
Marinate in life.
Exactly, that’s the word for it.
Do you have it delineated in that you can say, ‘Yeah, OK, that’s a Winery Dogs song, that one’s for a solo record, that one feels like more something I’d do with Adrian’?
It sometimes goes that way, but typically what has happened is the songs go where they just go. For the Winery Dogs first album, everything was kind of unknown. And so, we got together, and we did some jamming, and we came up with some ideas for songs. And then I went ahead and said, well, look, I’ve got these four or five things already written in one form or another and presented them to the guys, and some of those things became Winery Dog songs. However, on the next two albums, I didn’t do that. I didn’t bring anything in; we just got in a room and threw ideas around. So, the scenario you’re asking would never happen with the Winery Dogs. It hadn’t happened on the second album, and it didn’t happen on the third album. That’s not to say I won’t write a song next week that I think would be perfect for the band. That might happen, but it just hasn’t.
With Adrian and I, we get in a room and throw ideas around. Some of the ideas that I presented to Adrian that became Smith-Kotzen Songs, had he not, you know, fancied them, they would have become solo songs. Even in the process of us writing now, throwing ideas around, I brought in a few ideas. He liked them; we developed them. Those songs are written. Then there was another idea that was a bit funky for what we do. So that will probably end up on a solo album. I go with the flow. There might be something that is so personalized that I don’t even bother playing it for the others; those choices are pretty obvious for me.
With the Winery Dogs, because the three of you are such distinct, heavy-duty players with diverse, strong personalities coming from your individual backgrounds, are there moments where you might feel you are getting in each other’s lane?
Not really. Because, you know, we all played different instruments, right? And one of the things that I know, and how I’ve often put it, it’s like the band has developed a certain sense of trust. So, when we’re in the process, one member might say, ‘I really feel like this is where it should go.’ And then another guy might be like, ‘Oh man, I’m just not feeling that, but I’ll try it.’ And then we try it. And then once you do, it’s like, well, we still say no, ‘I still don’t like it.’ ‘Alright, well, we won’t do it. Let’s do something else.’ Or ‘Hey, you know what? They were right,’ and it worked out well. So, I think the general vibe with the three of us is it’s pretty free and loose.
That’s a nice way of working. Has it always been that loose and free for you?
I was probably more aggressive with taking a position when I was much younger, and now, you know, from the first Winery Dogs album ‘till now, I’ve done so much. I’ve released so much material from 2013 until now, right, where it’s like I’m a lot more malleable, I guess. I’m a lot less likely to be insistent upon it. Granted, I’m not gonna do something that doesn’t inspire me but I’m more flexible now.
That’s probably just the normal blush of maturity, no?
Yeah, yeah. But I also think beyond maturity, it’s about feeling well represented in your life. That makes a lot of sense for me. When I look back and I think, ‘OK, Richie Kotzen, who are you? And I’m not talking about what fans think, how do they view me or compare me or critics. I’m saying like personally, you know yourself better than anybody. I think, have you been well represented?
I can go back and look, there’s the Get Up album, there’s Into The Black, Peace Sign, 24 Hours, 50 For 50, there’s Cannibals, there’s Salting Earth. And I could say, if somebody came to me and said, ‘Hey, guess what kid, you’re done putting records out.’ It would suck but I could say, ‘Alright, I think I’m well represented.’ So, I don’t get nearly as bent out of shape now when I’m working on something with somebody. If it doesn’t go to someone’s liking, OK, move on.
So then with all you got going on, how do you negotiate the business end of things, being involved with so many projects?
Well, the business has changed so much because you know, in the old days you would get signed to a record label, right? And that’s how it would be. And everything would run through the record company. I mean, look, I made an album with 50 songs, my album 50 For 50. And in my opinion, it’s the most important piece of work that I’ve ever done in my entire life and I’m so happy that I did that. But I would never be able to do that if I was signed to Geffen, right? So, there’s a certain amount of freedom that I have artistically and creatively, that is just wonderful. The downside of the way the business is now is that for a newer act, not someone like me that’s been putting out records since 1989, but a newer act it, I don’t know how they get known. Playing live, sure, but I wouldn’t know how to do it from ground zero these days. But, you know, thankfully, I don’t have to, I’m already halfway through my life (laughs).
I hope you don’t take this the wrong way, but I get the sense from your solo stuff to a song like “Mad World” on III, that there’s lots of funk in your background or influencing you. In fact, “Mad World” sounds positively like Sly Stone to me.
You’re hitting the nail on the head. That’s my influence. I mean, I’m a rock guy. I’m known as a rock musician. And you know, I’ve flirted with jazz. But the reality is that I am a rock guy, but I grew up influenced by R&B and soul music being outside the Philadelphia area. Listening to the Spinners and those kinds of bands, even Hall and Oates, I mean, that’s in my DNA. So yeah, I mean, you’re one-thousand percent getting it because I’m influenced heavily by Sly and the Family Stone and you know, even Parliament Funkadelic. I have probably more affinity to that genre of music than the genre that I’m categorized in. Somehow, I walk this line of making what are obviously rock records, but you know, behind the curtain, yeah, my influences, my sound, everything that I do is influenced by really that kind of 70s soul R&B music. And you know, I could name a lot of people from Sly Stone to Prince.
Let’s switch gears a little bit and talk about the new album’s lyrics. I was reading a couple of things in the press about how you were speaking to the fact that nobody’s able to come to a place where we can have a polite discourse over differences of opinions these days.
Probably, you get that from the song “Mad World,” especially, I think. That’s the one track that kind of gives it to you, you know, on that level. I spent time with the lyrics to the degree that I just didn’t want to write lyrics for the sake of rhyming. I wanted to kind of say some something in a way that was singable. People don’t realize when you write songs and lyrics, so much is like, how does it sing? Because, you know, some rhymes sound good with some people singing them, and then it doesn’t really work for others. There’s some complexity to it. And so, I feel like I really took time, and I just didn’t wanna write for the sake of getting it done. I wanted to have something interesting. So, I kind of waited for the inspiration.
l don’t mean to say all the tunes are that ‘heavy’ lyrically, for want of a better word. I think you cover lots of ground as much in what you say on III as in what’s played.
You know, one song that is really fun, and I think it’s gonna be fun live, is a song on the album called “The Red Wine.” At one point, I realized we don’t have an anthem-type song, a song where everybody just gets up off their chair kind of a thing type. And that lyric to write was different, kind of fun. Just to write this kind of anthem and figure out, okay, how can I tie this together? Like us showing you a good time. I hadn’t really done that in the past; usually, I just kind of wait and do this kind of brooding state and whatever (laughs).
I think a modern-day audience appreciates some thought going into lyrics, yeah, even if it is a get up off your ass anthem kind of a thing, right?
I mean, all the songs are different, you’ll know this when you read the lyrics, but I’m rather obvious. I don’t write about spaceships, right? I have more conversational lyrics. Like a Bob Seger or Steve Miller Band, kinds of lyrics that you can kind of relate to as a human that just make sense on first listen.
Lastly — and specifically about guitar playing with the Winery Dogs — do you approach playing with them any different than any other guitar playing you do?
Well, you know there are certain limitations to the Winery Dogs. First is, you know, a power trio that I might have put together to play my songs would be there more as a support mechanism for me. But with the Winery Dogs, and Mike actually said this in one of his recent interviews, if you watch the band, I’m the guy that’s holding down the time and the structure to the degree that I’m just kind of laying out, you know the chords. Sure, when it’s time for me to solo, I open up, and those guys play a support role. But they are as active on their instruments as any soloist could be.
‘Active’, that’s a great word for it, and yes, I absolutely agree with you. When I saw you guys, I was watching you, especially since I was sitting right under you. But listening and throwing my gaze to Mike and Billy, I did keep thinking: ‘Yeah, they are playing man!’
Yeah, and that, to me, is a good thing because it’s exciting, and that’s what makes the band unique. I’m not in the business of telling people how to play and what to do, but right, the fact that they play together differently in this band than any other is what’s special. Billy plays way different in the Winery Dogs than he does in Mr. Big, right? And I know for a fact Mike plays very differently in this band than he does when he’s out with his other groups that I’ve seen him with. Actually, Mike compared it much like to The Who.
Yes, I’d agree with that comparison, for sure. So, after the states, I see you have European dates booked, right?
Yeah, we go to Europe, and we’re going to go to South America. I think that we’re talking to Japan about something there. Obviously, living on the West Coast, it would be devastating if we didn’t play here. Right now, I’m looking forward to getting back out with this band.
