Carmine Appice is a one-of-a kind, bon fide rock star and a pioneer in rock drumming. He made his name with Vanilla Fudge, built it bigger in the 70s with Cactus and Rod Stewart, and became one of the most in-demand, ubiquitous drummers in rock and roll, swinging with everyone from Ozzy Osbourne to Ted Nugent. There were numerous one-offs and collaborations along the way. And there was his own group, King Kobra — which we talk about in the following interview.
King Kobra, who released three albums in the 80s, reunited in 2010 with Paul Shortino, replacing original singer Mark Free, and recorded a self-titled album. The experience was received well enough to warrant a follow-up, King Kobra II, for a 2013 summer release. So, Appice fills us on how they came together. But if you know anything about Carmine Appice (and you check his website and Facebook page regularly), you know King Kobra is one of many things he’s involved with.
So you’re going to hear about his most current activities, including touring and recording with Cactus, playing Drums Wars shows with his brother Vinny, the occasional gig with Vanilla Fudge, and his recent participation at the Bonzo Bash East Coast Invasion shows this past May. As he works to complete his autobiography and ponders other opportunities, it’s pretty obvious Carmine Appice is one busy guy without any intention of stopping. Music fans should be thankful he’s still out there, pounding the skins and making the rounds.
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So let’s talk about the King Kobra II album, which is first and foremost on a long list of activities you’re involved with. Now, technically, I believe this is the fifth King Kobra studio album, but the second with the current lineup, hence the name King Kobra II. Is that sort of the angle here?
Well, yeah, it’s sort of the angle. We never really had a II, we had a III. All the other ones were names. We thought it’d be fun just to call it [King Kobra] II. It’s something good to talk about, why we called it II. But you know how it is — it’s the second one for Frontiers, second one with Paul (Shortino), and the second one to have the name.
So how did you get this one together? I know you are all so busy. How do you fit something like this in?
Well, I mean, we actually got together with me, Paul and Dave, with you know, the writing team, and we went to Vegas where Paul is; it’s sort of in the middle of Phoenix and LA, and Paul’s got his studio, he’s got a lot of connections there with different studios. And we went in and we started messing around with different song ideas, and then we went home and I wrote some stuff on my iPad Garage Band. Paul wrote some stuff; Dave wrote some stuff, and we started sending it to each other like the last album. We took more time and more time with the lyrics, more time with the arrangements — just tried to make it a better all-around record. Once we got all our material together — I mean, material was still being written after the tracks were recorded and stuff; some of the lyrics were still being decided upon — we just kept going, kept adding to the fire, I guess you call it.
And then at one point when we went in to do the video, to do the photos, you know, we weren’t finished with it yet, so Dave spent a couple days at Paul’s house. I was there also. And we finished up some of the background vocals and some of the bass parts and the percussion and all that while we were all around. And then, everybody worked from their own houses and when it was all done, we sent it all to Michael Voss in Germany to mix it. He does a great job mixing. The drums were done in analog in a studio in Vegas, taped and then done to Pro Tools — just want to have a good sound to them, you know. And that’s pretty much how we did it.
It took around nine months to really do it. Had we gotten together, had the songs and recorded it all at once, it probably would have taken one month to get it all together. But the budgets of today don’t warrant that you fly everybody into one place, put them in hotels and all that. It’s just too much money, you know.
Right. Recording a record is certainly a whole different experience than it used to be in the old days. But this record has been described as something that’s a throwback to those old classic 70s albums. I mean, I listened to one of the songs, “Deep River,” which I really like, and it certainly has that vibe. Is that sort of what you guys were going for?
We were just going for stuff that we liked. It ended up being a combination of 70s and 80s really, which wasn’t intentional but it’s just the way it flowed. And “Deep River” was one that we were trying to sort of make like “Blue Murder” and “Blue Murder” was sort of like 70s and 80s.
That’s one of my most favorite projects of yours.
This track — that one and “The Crunch” — was sort of Blue Murderous sounding. And we got the “Johnny Rod” song, which is more like Cactus, you know. And then you’ve got “Hell On Wheels,” which is sort of like Cactus. There’s a little bit of everything of my past in there. And then there’s a good variety of tempos and songs and keys. We tried to make every song different.
You talked about Paul Shortino and he certainly brings a cool dynamic to the band. He’s a busy guy: He’s playing with you, he’s doing Raiding The Rock Vault in Vegas. You guys have worked together on numerous projects, so I guess it’s working out between you two.
Yeah, I love Paul. I don’t know what year it was — it was 2007 or 2006 or something like that — we did a thing called “Rock For Christmas.” It was supposed to be for charity and it ended up being a fiasco. The fun thing we did was we drove from Salt Lake City all the way down to Vegas in a bus, and on the way down, we just kept singing songs. And that’s when I realized what a great singer Paul was because he could sing like a big black guy, he could sing like Paul McCartney, he could sing like the Quiet Riot guy, he could sing like Ronnie Dio, he could sing like the guys from the Temptations, Wilson Pickett, Otis Redding — he could sing anything and didn’t realize how good a singer he was because in Rough Cutt he didn’t really shine like that, you know, and even in Quiet Riot. So when the thing came up to maybe do a deal with Frontiers on a King Kobra record, Paul was the first guy I asked. And the last guy.
The rest of the band — David Michael-Philips, Mick Sweda, Johnny Rod — are all original members. There must be a good strong chemistry if you guys have reunited after all these years, made two records and are still speaking to each other.
Well, you know it’s been crazy. At one point, Mick wasn’t going to do it because he never was in communication. He told us he’d send us some ideas, but he never did. And just before we did the video, he came to life and said, “Oh yeah, I want to do it. I haven’t heard from anybody.” I mean, come on. “We all e-mailed and texted you and stuff, and called you.” So, we don’t know what happened — he jumped in at the end.
We all know this isn’t a money-making outfit. If we got paid by the hour to do this record, we probably would have got paid $5 an hour for all the time we put into it, considering the money we got. But we need some sort of budget because you know, you’ve got to have a guy mix it, got to have the money for a video, gotta have some money for the drummer on the analog, you know. So Frontiers does do that — they give you a little bit of a budget, not nearly enough to make you rich or anything, but it’s enough to make a record.
I was looking over your website and I didn’t see any live dates for King Kobra. Do you guys have anything on the horizon? Anything for next year?
No, not really, not really, because King Kobra was never a big money-making band. Yeah, we never got $15, $20 grand a night. So, with the way things are now, bands who have sold millions of records are selling 20,000 records. I was very happy that the last one did 15 grand records, and that’s why we did another one. It was because of that, because we weren’t that big in the ’80s, the money that’s being offered can’t even pay for travel for the band. So it’s silly. I’m not prepared to lose money on this thing, you know. We’re just doing this to have some fun, to give the fans some new music and if anything happens, which in this day and age, I don’t know if anything can happen out of the ordinary, you know, it’s really not a live act. So we’ll see what happens. Maybe some crazy promoter will offer enough money to go and to pay the expenses and actually put some money in everybody’s pocket and have some fun. But until that happens, we can’t really finance this.
We had a promoter in Europe who wanted us. He said, “Man, we’ll give you a hotel…three guys in a room.” I said, “Give me a break, dude.” Three guys in a room — c’mon, what am I? Seventeen years old? They wouldn’t even pay for our flights over there. So it doesn’t really pay to go over there for nothing. There’s no record company support like that anymore. In the old days, we had a big record company deal, we had a big merch deal and we had tour support. We don’t have that today. So it’s difficult to do.
I did see that you’re going out with Cactus. You’ve got some dates in Canada and Europe. And I just read that actually, July 1 was the 43rd anniversary of Cactus’ self-titled debut, and, of course it’s still going strong. Do you guys have anything special planned with Cactus?
We have a live album in Japan coming out, and I’m starting my own label here, and we’re doing a party in Canada to release this Live in Japan CD, and then they’re going to release it here as a double CD. We’re doing some more dates, going back to Europe for two festivals and a couple of big gigs over there. And then we’ll come back here at the end of August and do three shows on the East Coast. And that’s, so far, what we have planned for this year. We’ve already done a bunch of gigs with Cactus. Actually, we’ve done more gigs this year than we’ve ever done with Cactus. Some good things are happening.
Any talk of doing a studio record?
We have 13 new songs, which we’re going to release on my label, but we’re probably going to do an EP because people don’t care if it’s an album or an EP anymore, you know. We’re probably going to do a six-song EP, which hopefully will be ready by September.
And you’ve got more dates with your brother, Vinny, for Drum Wars, which I guess is going really well. What do you like about playing with your brother? It must feel good considering how much you both have accomplished.
Well, it’s fun. I mean, number one, it’s my brother, it’s family. We goof off on stage and I get to play his songs, he gets to play some of my songs and it’s a lot of fun. We have bands everywhere we go. We play stuff from Dio and Sabbath and Rod and Ozzy and all that stuff, and it’s just a lot of fun.
Have you guys played any gigs out here in LA lately?
We started out there in ’11, but we’re working on it. We have an agent now working on a West Coast run for October. The good thing about it is we do pick-ups there like Chuck Berry does. We go to a city, just me and Vinny, and we pick up a band that opens up for us. Give them a list of the songs and they know the songs anyway, and we just play it. Send the MP3s of the intros and the outros and by the time we get there, we just take rehearsal and we do it.
I understand you keep adding different elements.
Yeah. Now we have a backdrop, which we didn’t have before. The latest setup has a couple risers on each side of the backdrop, singers in front of the drums, the drums are in front.
You also recently hosted the Bonzo Bash shows in New York, Long Island and New Jersey at the end of May. And they surprised you with a Legend Award.
Yeah, they did, that was definitely a big surprise. I heard they were going to give one to Peter Criss, but Peter couldn’t make it, so I guess they thought, “We better give one to somebody who could make it.” So I was there.
You were friends with John Bonham and obviously saw him play many times, and I saw him a few times myself. Today he’s considered one of rock’s greatest drummers. Is that an assessment you agree with?
Yeah, he was a great drummer and had a great drum sound. Everybody thinks he was like a real hard-hitting heavy-hitter. He wasn’t really a heavy hitter, you know. I mean, he was a heavy hitter for the day, just like I was. Guys today, they overrate what the hitting should be, if you know what I’m talking about. They’re hitting so hard today, volume-wise. I had two rotator cuffs tear recently, left and right arm. Everybody’s gonna be getting them if they keep it up. Because they’re hitting way harder than I hit, even at my prime, you know.
I listened to a great solo I did with BBA in 1973, you know, it was a great solo but it wasn’t heavy hard-hitting like they do now. Now they’re at one volume — just loud. Me and Bonzo, there was dynamics there. If you look at any of the Bonzo videos, he’s playing hard but not really that hard, you know.
Wasn’t that through the way his drums were miked and maybe the size of his drums?
IYeah, I mean, the record-to-drum sound was basically Jimmy Page from the get-go. That was Jimmy Page as a producer. You have to learn how to tune your drums somewhat, which most drummers do that make it, you know. Some don’t, but most do. And then you play and you keep the same miking going live. It’s only a trio, and in their records and their live shows, the drums was the loudest thing. So he always sounded great. And on the record, he sounded superb, and then the band got so big, naturally he became one of the most popular rock drummers. He’s a great player.
I consider back in the 67, 68 era, was the guys that actually set the precedent was Ginger Baker, Mitch Mitchell, Keith Moon and myself — I was the only American guy, the rest of the guys were English. Between the four of us, we set the precedent of rock drummers were going to be. I created the power drumming. Mitch Mitchell and those guys created the more technical kind of stuff that was more light and jazz. And Ginger and Keith Moon were just off-the-wall crazy. And the next generation was Ian Paice and John Bonham; that was the next level. Ian Paice, John Bonham, Bill Bruford — that was the next generation, the next wave.
I hosted those things because I was playing gigs in the area. I wasn’t supposed to play according to the contract. And also, you know, these guys all play John Bonham’s stuff because they love John Bonham so much. When they were growing up, that was it for them. They would be like sitting down with the records and learning every beat he ever did. I never did that, you know. He was my friend. You know, I might still listen to Zeppelin for enjoyment, not to sit down and learn every beat that John did, because I pretty much knew everything he did. I already knew what he was doing. Wasn’t like I had to learn it. Even the triplet thing which I thought was his, he said he got from me. I never knew that until he pointed it out on the record that I did. He just took it and did it his way, and upped the level of it, you know.
So I never was that kind of guy, where I would sit down and, you know, like Brian Tichy, where I would sit down and put the record on and listen to every note Bonzo played and learn it. I never did that. So it’s different for me. I play a John Bonham song, I just play it for fun. I don’t play it like him. I play it like I’d play it, you know. And maybe a couple of parts he did I would play because they’re part of the song. Like when I did “Black Dog” once, I did it my way. I used a couple of drum patterns that make the song that have to go in the song to make it right, you know. But the fills and everything else were mine. In the end, I do whatever I do. If you go on YouTube, you see complaints from these idiots who write comments how I went off and didn’t play what was on the record. I wasn’t trying to be John Bonham.
Well, yeah, why would you?
I’m trying to be Carmine, playing a John Bonham song.
I totally see what you’re saying. Obviously, you have a different perspective on it because you were friends with him. You were contemporaries.
Yeah, me and Tim, we played with Zeppelin. One night we replaced Bonzo and John Paul Jones. It was fun — it was Bonzo’s idea. “Why don’t you and Tim go up there” during a 20-minute vocal and guitar thing. When the band comes back putting it all together, and Bonzo brings it in with the triplet roll and they play the groove. They go back to the riff. So he said, “You guys know the song, don’t you?” “Yeah, it’s easy.” “Why don’t you and Tim go up and do it?” So we did. We got up and finished the song with them. It was a lot of fun. I have good stories. That’s why it was better for me to host it than to play it, you know.
You mentioned Vanilla Fudge, and you’re still out there with them as well. What keeps it exciting for you, to keep going out there and doing this?
I love to play. It’s like my hobby. You go, “What’s your hobby?” Playing drums. I take Timmy Bogert’s philosophy: I get paid to travel. The playing’s free. I get paid to take the plane and all the crap that goes along with the traveling, but the playing is free because that’s what I love to do.
Speaking of Tim, have you talked to him lately?
Yeah, I talk to Tim a couple times a month to see how he’s doing. I just found out they’re releasing a 40th anniversary of BBA (Beck, Bogert & Appice) Live In Japan.
I heard about that.
A special Blu-Ray, CD and all that. Why don’t you release it worldwide? Don’t just release it in Japan. It was never released worldwide. Why don’t we just release it worldwide? You get a lot more sales.
That’s something I would definitely buy.
Yeah, so I’m supposed to help them put it together with some stories, pictures and all that. And I said, “Look, why don’t you do this?” I said, “That was the very first live album we did and we’re gonna have bonus tracks.” “What kind of bonus tracks you got?” So I said, “We do have a whole BBA live in the London Rainbow and that was our last live gig. Maybe we should throw a couple of them together.” I mean, the 40th anniversary of BBA Live in Japan and the bonus tracks would be live at the London Rainbow. We’ll release some of the tracks from there. We’ve got new songs that we’ve never played before; never heard, never recorded, but just bootlegs. And when me and Tim played in Japan with this guy named Cha, at the Budokan, we did a song called “Satisfied,” which was on the second BBA album that came out, it’s been all over the bootlegs. The whole audience of 8,000 people knew the song from the bootlegs. So I think it’d be a good idea to release some of that. It sounds good. With some mixing, we could make it sound great. So we’ll see. We’re working on it. I’ll have to call Tim in the next few days and tell him about that because they want some pictures and photos. We both have scrapbooks.
Do you see Tim coming down and sitting in with the Fudge or Cactus, or is he just pretty much done with that?
I think he’s pretty much done with playing. He hasn’t played in ages. Once in a while, he’ll go do something, but for him it’s the traveling. He can’t take it. He can’t get on a plane anymore. He’s too tired, he’s set himself up where he doesn’t need to work, so he’s enjoying life.
Good for him. You, on the other hand, are just so damn active. Still making records, still touring, still doing clinics and making appearances. The last time I spoke to you, you were writing your memoir. How’s that coming along?
Well, it’s coming along. That must have been with the other writer I was writing with. I actually signed a deal with VH1 Books and we got the guy that wrote Nikki Sixx;s book doing the writing. He’s a really great writer; he’s an English guy. So we’re about seven chapters in. We put a cap on it to finish by the end of September. The funny thing is, we’re only seven chapters in and we’re only up to Cactus. So I think I might to have a volume or two.
Yeah, either that or it’s going to be a thousand pages or something.
Yeah, I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to do that because I bought the Keith Richards book and it’s so stinking long that I couldn’t even take it on the road with me. It’s too heavy for my suitcase. It added enough weight in my suitcase that they wouldn’t let me on the plane when I go to Europe and stuff. So I take my toiletries and stuff that I need to take on the plane, and I put that book on there and it’s overweight. So I just left the book home. The childhood part was so long that I lost interest in the book. So I’m trying to avoid a lot because I’m an avid reader of these kinds of books and trying to make it so it’s enjoyable to me to read. Even though I know the stories.
Well, you definitely have enough going on so that there’s a volume two. Your story isn’t really over yet. Is there anything you haven’t done yet, anyone you want to play with?
Well you know, I’ve been talking to Ted Nugent about maybe going out next summer and doing something together. Because I always said to myself that I’d like to do one more arena tour in my career just to put the cream on the cake He saw me on That Metal Show — I’m on That Metal Show this week you know, again, as a guest musician. Ted called me about my performance. He said, “Man, I remember when we did some ass-kicking rock ‘n roll back in in the day.” And he says, “Call me.” So I called him and said, “How come we not gonna do it again?” So he said, “Maybe we should, next year.” So we’re going to talk about it and see where it goes.
You were saying earlier this is what you love to do. You love to travel, you love to play. You’ve been doing this for nearly 50 years. Is retirement a word that’s even in your vocabulary?
Not really. No. I would get really bored if I had nothing to do. Gotta have something to do. I’m also trying to get into the speaker end. Because I’ve done some of the clinics and all that, it’s like the next graduation of clinics is sort of like speaking gigs, you know, corporate speaking and stuff like that. I’m working right now with a partner and friend of mine named Dayna Steele. She was a big DJ in Houston for 20 years. She was like, huge, on KLOL. She takes like rock and roll networking and the basis of what we all do as musicians and she applies it to the business world. She asked me to partner up on some stuff for her, so we did and we’re working on getting some things put together. And that’s easy — good money for just telling me about yourself. You don’t have to bring a band.
You don’t need a roadie or anything.
No, I’m going to have a little drum set there and that’s it. Bring the book when it comes out — should be out by then — and rock and roll (laughs).
